Come talk transit and transportation with Transit Time newsletter writers — 12:00-12:45 TODAY
Join Ely Portillo of the UNC Charlotte Urban Institute, Steve Harrison of WFAE and Tony Mecia of The Charlotte Ledger for an online discussion of Charlotte-area transit and transportation.
We’ll take your questions and suggestions on topics such as Charlotte’s plans for transit, road-building, toll roads, buses and light rail, greenways and sidewalks, land-use planning and more.
We’ll start at 12:00 today and go for 30-45 minutes. (If you miss it, you can read it later!)
Hey, it’s Tony Mecia with The Ledger here. Thanks for joining the discussion. We’ll get going about 12:00. In the meantime, if you have any questions or topics you’d like to discuss, feel free to drop them in!
OK, we are just about at time. Thank you to all who joined us and had questions and comments. And thanks to Steve and Ely for joining as well. Appreciate it, everyone!
No, I think that a more pleasant streetscape can be made for whatever development is built above the bus terminal without the expense of ramps and an underground terminal. Also an underground terminal will make transferring to the elevated blue line take longer, which could ruin certain transfers.
Question for anyone out there: How bad is Charlotte traffic these days? Conventional wisdom seems to be that volumes have been back to pre-Covid levels for a while, but the trips are more spread out throughout the day. Do you agree with that? What are you seeing?
I live 5 minutes from Randolph Road, and there's a bus that goes straight to uptown. I have ridden it maybe 2x in 10 years. If it were more frequent and reliable, and if I were going uptown, I would use it more. (Don't like paying $20 to park uptown.) Last time I checked I think it was every 30 minutes.
What if you could trust the app to track the bus and accurately predict its arrival to your stop within 2-3 min. Even if its headways aren't as frequent as you'd like, reliable track would almost give it an on-demand feel, and you could plan your trips accordingly. Could that entice you?
reliable bus tracking. its awful on weekends when a bus is missing for an hour. they seem to be doing better, but i guess its a combination of labor shortage and not updating the app. I cant imagine how frustrating it would be not using the app
I've already shared that real-time tracking on the app has been a game-changer for me. Not everyone likes to go into phone and time things on an app, so if a live board at the stop could display real-time expected arrivals, I think that might be a game-changer for "choice riders."
I forwarded this question to some co-workers and got responses for more frequency. "more frequency. the express bus to belmont provides great access to where i need to go, but only has 2 times to choose from in AM/PM"
For a couple weeks now, I've gone from driving into work in Uptown each day from Wesley Heights, to taking the Gold Line, and the game-changer for me was the real-time tracking CATS app. I can check my phone at 7:00am and know that the streetcar will arrive at the stop at 7:15am and time my walk accordingly. I've come to thoroughly enjoy my morning and afternoon routines so far. Reliability/Predictability and communication are all much more important than frequency.
Numbers are picking up. Not crowded, but you're seeing gatherings at the stops with people clearly going to office jobs. I'm going pretty early, but on the couple days I've taken it after 8am, it's much busier...I'd say 30 in the car I've been in.
I tried riding the bus once and found the experience dark and depressing. So for me, it was a fleet issue. The streetcar vehicle is brighter, and just a more pleasant vehicle to be in, IMO. Dual-side door gives it more flexibility than a bus too. Just a superior experience to bus riding.
More frequency would be the biggest thing. I took the bus for a couple months while my car was in the shop and while I really enjoyed it, having to wait 45 minutes for a bus doesn't correspond to being able to use it for non-commute trips.
Yeah, that's a big one you hear CATS talk about frequently. Lots of routes are still 45 minute headways - not really usable unless you don't have an alternative.
I do ride public transit often, but for my wife the 2 key things would be if the buses and trains ran more frequently and if it was safer/easier for her to walk or bike from the train station to the school where she works at.
Along the light rail line I think getting back to under 10 minute headways would be key. And then for buses I think that every 20 minutes is workable if the schedules are coordinated so that I'm unlikely to have my bus pull up to the blue line station as the train is pulling away or vice versa.
To get the ball rolling, let me ask Steve and Ely – what are some big-picture topics you’re keeping an eye on over the next few months related to transit and transportation?
I'm going to answer my own question like this: I would say there are a number of things – the biggest of which is Charlotte’s transit plan and what happens to it. There’s also an interesting discussion over toll lanes on I-77 south of uptown, the overhaul of the uptown bus station, problems with CATS bus reliability, and NCDOT road funding, to name a few.
Ely Portillo of the UNC Charlotte Urban Institute and Steve Harrison of WFAE are also here. We write regularly about Charlotte-area transit and transportation for our organizations and for the weekly Transit Time newsletter (www.TransitTimeCLT.com) . We will go for 30-45 minutes.
We’ll take your questions about anything you’ve been wondering about – or your comments on things you think we should be looking into and writing about. You’re welcome to chime in on any (relevant) topic with your opinions and observations.
Recently, officials announced an expansion of I-85 in Gaston County. I totally agree there is a bottleneck in that spot. But I don't get how a highway that's already four lanes will be getting another free lane and yet in Mecklenburg county, they say the only relief of two lane I-77 would be a possible toll lane? Isn't it interesting that the counties surrounding Mecklenburg have wider and free interstate highways than Mecklenburg?
Since East-west light rail is a $14 B plan w no funding and 20+ years away, what is the likelihood of solving for better transit in 5-10 years w ride-share, robo taxis, and tunneling at a fraction of the cost and in half the time?
Regarding the underground bus terminal, in the trade off between effective transit and having a practice facility of the Hornets, transit wins, in my opinion. In other cities an undergoing terminal has failed. Why would we want to repeat a failure?
Bus routes can be changed, but not light rail. CATS needs to undergo a complete reorganization before a regional transit plan is seriously considered. It's time to look at what other cities are doing effectively, like Pittsburgh working to time traffic lights in partnership with CMU (Carnegie Mellon Univ), or Austin, TX.
They have an outside audit that should be coming in any day now that might make some suggestions. A lot of council members are frustrated with the CATS situation.
Are there any plans to continue expanding the commuter bus system? I have a friend who lives in Huntersville who I would visit via the bus if it ran on Saturdays
There are plans, yes. Not sure about a Saturday Huntersville bus. It's mostly having a few new routes. The biggest thing would be increased frequencies on existing routes
That exact question was asked at a recent transportation summit at the Ballantyne hotel -- out of maybe 150 people, I think 2 people raised their hands as being users of transit. (In fairness, it was in Ballantyne...)
although: I looked and it's actually pretty easy to get to the Ballantyne hotel by transit! The #43 runs right there. But no one would consider doing that.
That's a great question - I would think that the answer isn't that many. I've heard Braxton Winston talk about riding the rail, but I don't know that many others do (especially if you're talking about staff). But again, that's just speculation. I would love if everyone was required to once a week, or month, or something.
Braxton does/used to. But outside of council members talking about riding rail, you just NEVER hear about first hand experiences they have had with the bus system.
Tony & Ely- I was one of those residents in South Charlotte who helped organize opposition to approval of a commercial office building on Providence Road 1/2 mile north of the Rt 51 intersection. We relied on the designated Neighborhood 1 Place Type and the 10 goals of the 2040 Plan. I feel I have wasted a lot of time. In our rezoning the planning department indicated that 8 of the 10 goals were not applicable and there was no public input regarding changing a residential place type to commercial. I will be working to help defeat Ed Driggs in the next election.
And that's an issue that I could see coming up more with the 2040 plan and Charlotte's growth in the future. There's a tension between the goals of enabling community input and trying to speed up the development process and smooth it out for developers.
Ely- I see a potential article here for the Urban Institute. It's time, in my humble opinion, to get more confrontational with City Council. City Council only listens to powerful developers and groups like REBIC and their law firms. Southeast Charlotte is unorganized, but there will be a time when we revolt.
How likely are we to get a shorter silver line route just from Uptown to the Airport instead of a much more expensive plan from Matthews to Gaston County?
That's a bold bet! I don't think CATS can commit to BRT. The train may no get build to Matthews, but CATS and the city can't say that. Think about how long they have kept pushing the Red Line.
I have not heard that option openly discussed by anybody in authority, but it seems like a reasonable question to ask whether the Silver Line needs to go the whole route, all together. I think Ely & Steve mentioned a shorter Silver Line as a way to get started. I don't sense a lot of enthusiasm for just making it an airport-uptown shuttle service. (Remember that the line wouldn't go into the terminal - would need another shuttle from Wilkinson or thereabouts.)
Great question! I think there is a very good chance of this happening. Remember, the original Blue Line was supposed to go to Pineville - it was shortened. The BLE was supposed to go to I-485 - it was shortened because of money. So I think it's very likely the line isn't as long as being talked about today. And if they shorten it, I assume it would be cut in the southeast
Has the bus or light-rail system ever considered surge pricing for big events in order to deliver stepped-up servicing? For example, surge pricing for panthers games but also guaranteed faster headways and it would still be a compelling proposition versus driving to the game and paying for parking.
Good question. I never heard about surge pricing for big events. I think it would be really hard to implement. Just because of the crush of people...a lot of people would ignore it, etc. etc. And CATS is trying to do anything and everything to get people to use the system.
All the negative press coverage of the issues with CATS might be meant to hold public officials to account, but it is also making the CATS brand toxic, exacerbating the issues in getting people to consider riding and in recruiting and retaining drivers? How can CATS improve & enhance its brand, while also instituting an operational excellence/process excellence program?
I think that a lot of the CATS problems are driven by real operational issues, like buses being canceled, rampant streetcar delays, service cuts, etc. I think the best thing they could do to fix that would be to get the driver contract situation sorted out (tough with the union dynamic) and start hiring people to get the operations back to where they need to be.
I think they are testing it out on a small scale to see how it works. It's envisioned, I think, more like a "last mile solution" -- how to get short distances, perhaps where existing transit doesn't go -- as opposed to longer-haul service across the city
Are there any attempts to change bus or train schedules to make transfers easier? to make sure that a bus is at the bus bay for a station in time for a transfer to/from the blue line?
I've seen that as a focus of Envision my Ride. One problem is that synchronizing the bus schedules gets hard without a dedicated ROW. Can you hold up a Blue Line train because a bus is caught in rush hour traffic? That's why you're going to see and hear a lot more about creating dedicated ROW for bus-only lanes, signal prioritization for buses, etc.
Council members have said that the reason we need a hub-and-spoke bus system is because the majority of riders need to go into Uptown. While that may be true, why does that necessitate a central hub-and-spoke? Why not instead have suburban park and ride lots with bus routes that go both N/S and E/W across the city and a rider can just take the route they need to the stop they need? Why can't busses just run through Uptown with on-street stops?
That's a really good question, as Steve said. Outside of a few corridors, there aren't many places that are dense enough to support crosstown routes - Charlotte is so suburban. Rather than a total "de-hubbing" I think we'll see a lot more emphasis on on-demand, first-mile last-mile services, like subsidized ride-hailing, outside of the hub-and-spoke routes.
The subsidized ride-sharing I think has a lot of potential. CATS is going to roll that out in a few select areas, and that could help a lot of people. In eastern NC, Wilson has gone to a 100 percent ride share system. The bus system (I think) is gone.
Hey Josh, Steve Harrison here. I think you ask a very good question. CATS says it's committed to "de-hubbing" the bus system. But: the problem is the crosstown routes - which are mostly east-west - just don't have many riders at all. I live in south Charlotte, and CATS has a bus route that goes on NC 51 from Pineville to Matthews. And basically no one rides it. It's an 11-mile trip and each bus has like 1 or 2 people on average. So it's very hard to do these crosstowns. I don't have the exact data in front of me, but the bus system is HEAVILY dependent on the traditional hub and spoke routes. The No. 9 on central avenue carries about 1 in 10 bus passengers. The ten busiest routes carry half of the passengers. The crosstown route has been a big talking point, but if you look closely at what CATS plans to do with Envision My Ride, it's mostly all about increasing the frequencies of the busiest routes - and they all go uptown
Recently City Council has indicated that it will approve rezoning petitions under the existing Charlotte Zoning Ordinance and disregard the 2040 Comprehensive Plan Goals and the lace types under the Policy Map even though these plans are in effect now. As an example Dimple Ajmera has indicated that there should be exceptions for drive through. On 9/19 Ed Driggs stated explicitly that the old zoning provisions should control out of fairness to developers during this transition period in approving a commercial office building in a Neighborhood 1 Area on Providence Road- RZP 2021–246. These city-wide comprehensive plans are being ignored in favor of adhoc zoning, and it’s business as usual. It makes many of us very cynical.
Doyle, thanks for the question. One of the things that the 2040 plan was supposed to do was to give more certainty to developers, and not have them have to play political games with council members to get rezonings approved (as much). But when a bunch of residents start objecting, it's hard for council members not to weigh in. So they sort of don't want the responsibility for every little parcel, except when they do.
Tony- well said. Sadly, Charlotte’s governance is fairly ineffective, and unless City Council and the Mayor stop playing these political games, the city will lose out on real urban planning that makes sense. I am suggesting that our city will remain second class unless we strike the right balance between community involvement and developer’s money. I have lived in other cities with more serious problems, but they understand the need for land use regulations as density increases. Not here.
I would just add to this that the City Council has the ability to make exceptions for rezonings, and they have already shown a willingness to allow drive thrus in TOD areas where the plan says they shouldn't go - so even having a plan doesn't guarantee it will be followed.
I haven't followed the 2040 plan as closely as Ely and Tony. But - you make a good point. It's very easy to pass an "aspirational plan" that calls for reducing car trips, making the city more walkable etc. But when a vote comes before council it becomes MUCH harder to vote down a drive thru. One reason is that developers give campaign $$, and their land-use attorneys give campaign $$. So I think the "ad-hoc zoning" will continue
As mentioned, it seems a major challenge is getting a regional plan. It seems our neighbors not only don't want to pay for it, they actually don't want to be connected to Charlotte. So they resist a regional plan
And keep in mind, 1/2 of workers in Mecklenburg commuted from another county (pre-pandemic). So, there is incentive for other counties to play ball - if covid hasn't changed everything too much.
Although I am an avid supporter of light rail, what I would really like to see is leadership on a statewide basis that would get behind high speed rail. Connecting Charlotte, Greensboro, Raleigh and Wilmington with high speed rail would cement this state as a 21st Century leader by democratizing capital and work location. Imagine living in a state where a major metro area was never farther than a 30 minute train ride or imagine a major international company locating in eastern NC with workers able to live in Raleigh or Wilmington. The possibilities are endless, but requires the kind of leadership we haven't seen since Terry Sanford's time (aka a very long time).
Thanks for joining, John. Like a lot of things with transit, there are plans being drawn up, but the challenge is the funding. Last year the federal government picked a preferred route between Charlotte and Atlanta. But there's no actual $ to make it happen. (Sound familiar?) I personally find the service to Raleigh, Durham etc pretty slow and not always on time
I know this is late - but.. I am familiar with that article and all the reasons it can't be done. But at one point it was said it was not possible to have a state university within a 1 hour drive from every citizen in NC. Then the UNC system was developed and launched. It was said that NC could never pave all its dirt roads and then NC became the good roads state. East Carolina (formally East Carolina Teachers College) could not have a med school, etc. etc.. The list of significant accomplishments from people of real leadership is long: the Hoover Dam, The Interstate Highway System, landing on the Moon, directing and exploding a working satellite into an orbiting astroid in outer space. I am frustrated by people nibbling around the edges calling themselves leaders. Thanks for letting me vent..... (Don't get me started on CMS where my wife is a teacher....)
How long does the trip from CLT to Raleigh take today? I think (big caveat) that it's about 3 hours 10 mins? If the state could get that down by 20-30 mins that would be a really big deal. But to be honest I don't know the next phase of improvements/construction on that line
Is it realistic to believe that Charlotte will coordinate with surrounding counties on a regional transit plan? Taxpayers in Mecklenburg county will not be willing to pay for a $13 billion plan.
Well, I think the bigger plan is not going to happen without some regional cooperation or buy-in. Charlotte needs outside funding to build the light rail connections to Union, Gaston, etc. that they envision. But Charlotte could do something smaller on its own - maybe really get going on greenways, or fixing the bus systems.
Ely might have an opinion on this. I do think there are things these surrounding counties would like, such as enhanced express bus service. They have a lot of commuters to Mecklenburg. But no, they don't really seem to want to pay for it in any substantial way, and my guess is that a sales tax increase in these surrounding counties is a non-starter. Some people have floated the idea of a regional authority - give these (Republican-controlled) counties some actual power to make things happen, in exchange for some state money and approval from the legislature for a referendum here. But that would require Mecklenburg/Charlotte to give up some control.
At this point I don't think it's realistic to think that Union/Cabarrus/Gaston would be willing to levy a new sales tax for the Charlotte plan. I think the best hope would be to get them to pay for the incremental cost of bringing rail to their counties, and then asking them to pay for the extra operating cost of bringing the train there. That is what happens today with the express bus routes - they write a check to CATS. I may be mistaken, but in Atlanta, I think only Fulton and DeKalb counties are part of the MARTA tax. And the ATL area is much more urbanized than Charlotte. It may happen one day - but I think it's a while off
Hey, it’s Tony Mecia with The Ledger here. Thanks for joining the discussion. We’ll get going about 12:00. In the meantime, if you have any questions or topics you’d like to discuss, feel free to drop them in!
OK, we are just about at time. Thank you to all who joined us and had questions and comments. And thanks to Steve and Ely for joining as well. Appreciate it, everyone!
Thanks all! See you on Twitter, and maybe in real life.
Here's another big-picture question: Do you think Charlotte should bury the central bus terminal below-grade, or not?
No, I think that a more pleasant streetscape can be made for whatever development is built above the bus terminal without the expense of ramps and an underground terminal. Also an underground terminal will make transferring to the elevated blue line take longer, which could ruin certain transfers.
Good point on the transfer. You've also got the streetcar for transfers at street level.
Question for anyone out there: How bad is Charlotte traffic these days? Conventional wisdom seems to be that volumes have been back to pre-Covid levels for a while, but the trips are more spread out throughout the day. Do you agree with that? What are you seeing?
Here's a question for everyone: What would it take to get you to ride public transit in Charlotte, if you don't already?
I live 5 minutes from Randolph Road, and there's a bus that goes straight to uptown. I have ridden it maybe 2x in 10 years. If it were more frequent and reliable, and if I were going uptown, I would use it more. (Don't like paying $20 to park uptown.) Last time I checked I think it was every 30 minutes.
What if you could trust the app to track the bus and accurately predict its arrival to your stop within 2-3 min. Even if its headways aren't as frequent as you'd like, reliable track would almost give it an on-demand feel, and you could plan your trips accordingly. Could that entice you?
reliable bus tracking. its awful on weekends when a bus is missing for an hour. they seem to be doing better, but i guess its a combination of labor shortage and not updating the app. I cant imagine how frustrating it would be not using the app
I've heard that's the biggest problem (but I also don't ride the bus, I confess).
I've already shared that real-time tracking on the app has been a game-changer for me. Not everyone likes to go into phone and time things on an app, so if a live board at the stop could display real-time expected arrivals, I think that might be a game-changer for "choice riders."
I forwarded this question to some co-workers and got responses for more frequency. "more frequency. the express bus to belmont provides great access to where i need to go, but only has 2 times to choose from in AM/PM"
That's rough - especially if you have to drop off or pick up kids and then grab the bus. Not a lot of leeway or flexibility there.
For a couple weeks now, I've gone from driving into work in Uptown each day from Wesley Heights, to taking the Gold Line, and the game-changer for me was the real-time tracking CATS app. I can check my phone at 7:00am and know that the streetcar will arrive at the stop at 7:15am and time my walk accordingly. I've come to thoroughly enjoy my morning and afternoon routines so far. Reliability/Predictability and communication are all much more important than frequency.
That's great about the Gold Line. How many people are on those morning ones?
Numbers are picking up. Not crowded, but you're seeing gatherings at the stops with people clearly going to office jobs. I'm going pretty early, but on the couple days I've taken it after 8am, it's much busier...I'd say 30 in the car I've been in.
I tried riding the bus once and found the experience dark and depressing. So for me, it was a fleet issue. The streetcar vehicle is brighter, and just a more pleasant vehicle to be in, IMO. Dual-side door gives it more flexibility than a bus too. Just a superior experience to bus riding.
There's a big stigma around buses, and this experience difference is part of it, I believe. https://ui.charlotte.edu/story/overcoming-stigma-riding-bus
More frequency would be the biggest thing. I took the bus for a couple months while my car was in the shop and while I really enjoyed it, having to wait 45 minutes for a bus doesn't correspond to being able to use it for non-commute trips.
Yeah, that's a big one you hear CATS talk about frequently. Lots of routes are still 45 minute headways - not really usable unless you don't have an alternative.
I do ride public transit often, but for my wife the 2 key things would be if the buses and trains ran more frequently and if it was safer/easier for her to walk or bike from the train station to the school where she works at.
What kind of frequency would you like to see?
Along the light rail line I think getting back to under 10 minute headways would be key. And then for buses I think that every 20 minutes is workable if the schedules are coordinated so that I'm unlikely to have my bus pull up to the blue line station as the train is pulling away or vice versa.
To get the ball rolling, let me ask Steve and Ely – what are some big-picture topics you’re keeping an eye on over the next few months related to transit and transportation?
1. Commuting patterns. Will WFH stay stable (it appears to be stabilized for a while now). What does that mean?
2. CATS operations. Can they fix the bus system and other operational problems?
I'm going to answer my own question like this: I would say there are a number of things – the biggest of which is Charlotte’s transit plan and what happens to it. There’s also an interesting discussion over toll lanes on I-77 south of uptown, the overhaul of the uptown bus station, problems with CATS bus reliability, and NCDOT road funding, to name a few.
Hi everyone! I had to reauthenticate my login. I'm here now!
Ely Portillo of the UNC Charlotte Urban Institute and Steve Harrison of WFAE are also here. We write regularly about Charlotte-area transit and transportation for our organizations and for the weekly Transit Time newsletter (www.TransitTimeCLT.com) . We will go for 30-45 minutes.
We’ll take your questions about anything you’ve been wondering about – or your comments on things you think we should be looking into and writing about. You’re welcome to chime in on any (relevant) topic with your opinions and observations.
Feasibility of battery-assisted, eletric trolley-buses as a cheaper, more expedient alternative solution to expanding the Gold Line
Recently, officials announced an expansion of I-85 in Gaston County. I totally agree there is a bottleneck in that spot. But I don't get how a highway that's already four lanes will be getting another free lane and yet in Mecklenburg county, they say the only relief of two lane I-77 would be a possible toll lane? Isn't it interesting that the counties surrounding Mecklenburg have wider and free interstate highways than Mecklenburg?
Since East-west light rail is a $14 B plan w no funding and 20+ years away, what is the likelihood of solving for better transit in 5-10 years w ride-share, robo taxis, and tunneling at a fraction of the cost and in half the time?
Regarding the underground bus terminal, in the trade off between effective transit and having a practice facility of the Hornets, transit wins, in my opinion. In other cities an undergoing terminal has failed. Why would we want to repeat a failure?
Bus routes can be changed, but not light rail. CATS needs to undergo a complete reorganization before a regional transit plan is seriously considered. It's time to look at what other cities are doing effectively, like Pittsburgh working to time traffic lights in partnership with CMU (Carnegie Mellon Univ), or Austin, TX.
They have an outside audit that should be coming in any day now that might make some suggestions. A lot of council members are frustrated with the CATS situation.
Are there any plans to continue expanding the commuter bus system? I have a friend who lives in Huntersville who I would visit via the bus if it ran on Saturdays
There are plans, yes. Not sure about a Saturday Huntersville bus. It's mostly having a few new routes. The biggest thing would be increased frequencies on existing routes
As a political/leadership question how many CATS leaders or City leaders routinely use the system?
That exact question was asked at a recent transportation summit at the Ballantyne hotel -- out of maybe 150 people, I think 2 people raised their hands as being users of transit. (In fairness, it was in Ballantyne...)
although: I looked and it's actually pretty easy to get to the Ballantyne hotel by transit! The #43 runs right there. But no one would consider doing that.
That's a great question - I would think that the answer isn't that many. I've heard Braxton Winston talk about riding the rail, but I don't know that many others do (especially if you're talking about staff). But again, that's just speculation. I would love if everyone was required to once a week, or month, or something.
Braxton does/used to. But outside of council members talking about riding rail, you just NEVER hear about first hand experiences they have had with the bus system.
Tony & Ely- I was one of those residents in South Charlotte who helped organize opposition to approval of a commercial office building on Providence Road 1/2 mile north of the Rt 51 intersection. We relied on the designated Neighborhood 1 Place Type and the 10 goals of the 2040 Plan. I feel I have wasted a lot of time. In our rezoning the planning department indicated that 8 of the 10 goals were not applicable and there was no public input regarding changing a residential place type to commercial. I will be working to help defeat Ed Driggs in the next election.
And that's an issue that I could see coming up more with the 2040 plan and Charlotte's growth in the future. There's a tension between the goals of enabling community input and trying to speed up the development process and smooth it out for developers.
Ely- I see a potential article here for the Urban Institute. It's time, in my humble opinion, to get more confrontational with City Council. City Council only listens to powerful developers and groups like REBIC and their law firms. Southeast Charlotte is unorganized, but there will be a time when we revolt.
How likely are we to get a shorter silver line route just from Uptown to the Airport instead of a much more expensive plan from Matthews to Gaston County?
My bet: Silver Line to the airport, bus rapid transit to SE Meck/Matthews.
That's a bold bet! I don't think CATS can commit to BRT. The train may no get build to Matthews, but CATS and the city can't say that. Think about how long they have kept pushing the Red Line.
I have not heard that option openly discussed by anybody in authority, but it seems like a reasonable question to ask whether the Silver Line needs to go the whole route, all together. I think Ely & Steve mentioned a shorter Silver Line as a way to get started. I don't sense a lot of enthusiasm for just making it an airport-uptown shuttle service. (Remember that the line wouldn't go into the terminal - would need another shuttle from Wilkinson or thereabouts.)
Here's a link to that piece on how the Silver Line might be shortened, if people in charge are interested in that: https://charlotteledger.substack.com/i/72233541/shorten-the-silver-line
Great question! I think there is a very good chance of this happening. Remember, the original Blue Line was supposed to go to Pineville - it was shortened. The BLE was supposed to go to I-485 - it was shortened because of money. So I think it's very likely the line isn't as long as being talked about today. And if they shorten it, I assume it would be cut in the southeast
Because you have to get to the airport, right?
https://charlotteledger.substack.com/p/transit-time-the-real-reason-why
* within about a mile of the airport terminal
Has the bus or light-rail system ever considered surge pricing for big events in order to deliver stepped-up servicing? For example, surge pricing for panthers games but also guaranteed faster headways and it would still be a compelling proposition versus driving to the game and paying for parking.
Good question. I never heard about surge pricing for big events. I think it would be really hard to implement. Just because of the crush of people...a lot of people would ignore it, etc. etc. And CATS is trying to do anything and everything to get people to use the system.
Audio? Just written Q and responses?
This is a written medium. We can try audio in the future!
All the negative press coverage of the issues with CATS might be meant to hold public officials to account, but it is also making the CATS brand toxic, exacerbating the issues in getting people to consider riding and in recruiting and retaining drivers? How can CATS improve & enhance its brand, while also instituting an operational excellence/process excellence program?
I think that a lot of the CATS problems are driven by real operational issues, like buses being canceled, rampant streetcar delays, service cuts, etc. I think the best thing they could do to fix that would be to get the driver contract situation sorted out (tough with the union dynamic) and start hiring people to get the operations back to where they need to be.
A big thing is the reliability piece - CATS has gone a long way to fixing that by right-sizing the schedule.
Although that begs the question: Will CATS ever restore that service, or is this a new baseline?
I can see this becoming the new baseline and that CATS pivots to needing the sales tax to bring service back to 2019 levels.
I heard something about a micro mobility program from CATS like Uber, is that rolling out in certain areas or is that a planned city wide thing?
Here's an earlier story I did with some more context as well: https://ui.charlotte.edu/story/charlotte-considers-replacing-some-low-ridership-buses-demand-service
I think they are testing it out on a small scale to see how it works. It's envisioned, I think, more like a "last mile solution" -- how to get short distances, perhaps where existing transit doesn't go -- as opposed to longer-haul service across the city
Axios Charlotte had a recent piece on this: https://charlotte.axios.com/306611/charlotte-uber-esque-public-transit-service-will-pilot-in-university-north-end-airport-areas/
Are there any attempts to change bus or train schedules to make transfers easier? to make sure that a bus is at the bus bay for a station in time for a transfer to/from the blue line?
I've seen that as a focus of Envision my Ride. One problem is that synchronizing the bus schedules gets hard without a dedicated ROW. Can you hold up a Blue Line train because a bus is caught in rush hour traffic? That's why you're going to see and hear a lot more about creating dedicated ROW for bus-only lanes, signal prioritization for buses, etc.
Council members have said that the reason we need a hub-and-spoke bus system is because the majority of riders need to go into Uptown. While that may be true, why does that necessitate a central hub-and-spoke? Why not instead have suburban park and ride lots with bus routes that go both N/S and E/W across the city and a rider can just take the route they need to the stop they need? Why can't busses just run through Uptown with on-street stops?
That's a really good question, as Steve said. Outside of a few corridors, there aren't many places that are dense enough to support crosstown routes - Charlotte is so suburban. Rather than a total "de-hubbing" I think we'll see a lot more emphasis on on-demand, first-mile last-mile services, like subsidized ride-hailing, outside of the hub-and-spoke routes.
The subsidized ride-sharing I think has a lot of potential. CATS is going to roll that out in a few select areas, and that could help a lot of people. In eastern NC, Wilson has gone to a 100 percent ride share system. The bus system (I think) is gone.
Hey Josh, Steve Harrison here. I think you ask a very good question. CATS says it's committed to "de-hubbing" the bus system. But: the problem is the crosstown routes - which are mostly east-west - just don't have many riders at all. I live in south Charlotte, and CATS has a bus route that goes on NC 51 from Pineville to Matthews. And basically no one rides it. It's an 11-mile trip and each bus has like 1 or 2 people on average. So it's very hard to do these crosstowns. I don't have the exact data in front of me, but the bus system is HEAVILY dependent on the traditional hub and spoke routes. The No. 9 on central avenue carries about 1 in 10 bus passengers. The ten busiest routes carry half of the passengers. The crosstown route has been a big talking point, but if you look closely at what CATS plans to do with Envision My Ride, it's mostly all about increasing the frequencies of the busiest routes - and they all go uptown
Recently City Council has indicated that it will approve rezoning petitions under the existing Charlotte Zoning Ordinance and disregard the 2040 Comprehensive Plan Goals and the lace types under the Policy Map even though these plans are in effect now. As an example Dimple Ajmera has indicated that there should be exceptions for drive through. On 9/19 Ed Driggs stated explicitly that the old zoning provisions should control out of fairness to developers during this transition period in approving a commercial office building in a Neighborhood 1 Area on Providence Road- RZP 2021–246. These city-wide comprehensive plans are being ignored in favor of adhoc zoning, and it’s business as usual. It makes many of us very cynical.
Doyle, thanks for the question. One of the things that the 2040 plan was supposed to do was to give more certainty to developers, and not have them have to play political games with council members to get rezonings approved (as much). But when a bunch of residents start objecting, it's hard for council members not to weigh in. So they sort of don't want the responsibility for every little parcel, except when they do.
Tony- well said. Sadly, Charlotte’s governance is fairly ineffective, and unless City Council and the Mayor stop playing these political games, the city will lose out on real urban planning that makes sense. I am suggesting that our city will remain second class unless we strike the right balance between community involvement and developer’s money. I have lived in other cities with more serious problems, but they understand the need for land use regulations as density increases. Not here.
I would just add to this that the City Council has the ability to make exceptions for rezonings, and they have already shown a willingness to allow drive thrus in TOD areas where the plan says they shouldn't go - so even having a plan doesn't guarantee it will be followed.
I haven't followed the 2040 plan as closely as Ely and Tony. But - you make a good point. It's very easy to pass an "aspirational plan" that calls for reducing car trips, making the city more walkable etc. But when a vote comes before council it becomes MUCH harder to vote down a drive thru. One reason is that developers give campaign $$, and their land-use attorneys give campaign $$. So I think the "ad-hoc zoning" will continue
As mentioned, it seems a major challenge is getting a regional plan. It seems our neighbors not only don't want to pay for it, they actually don't want to be connected to Charlotte. So they resist a regional plan
I think that's one of the biggest questions - will Charlotte have to go it alone? The conversation is much more regional now: https://ui.charlotte.edu/story/charlotte-leaders-are-looking-regional-cooperation-and-funding-restart-stalled-transit
And keep in mind, 1/2 of workers in Mecklenburg commuted from another county (pre-pandemic). So, there is incentive for other counties to play ball - if covid hasn't changed everything too much.
Although I am an avid supporter of light rail, what I would really like to see is leadership on a statewide basis that would get behind high speed rail. Connecting Charlotte, Greensboro, Raleigh and Wilmington with high speed rail would cement this state as a 21st Century leader by democratizing capital and work location. Imagine living in a state where a major metro area was never farther than a 30 minute train ride or imagine a major international company locating in eastern NC with workers able to live in Raleigh or Wilmington. The possibilities are endless, but requires the kind of leadership we haven't seen since Terry Sanford's time (aka a very long time).
Thanks for joining, John. Like a lot of things with transit, there are plans being drawn up, but the challenge is the funding. Last year the federal government picked a preferred route between Charlotte and Atlanta. But there's no actual $ to make it happen. (Sound familiar?) I personally find the service to Raleigh, Durham etc pretty slow and not always on time
No $ is an excuse, not a reason. Leadership can develop the $.
Background: Charlotte-to-Atlanta rail line. https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article252895003.html
I know this is late - but.. I am familiar with that article and all the reasons it can't be done. But at one point it was said it was not possible to have a state university within a 1 hour drive from every citizen in NC. Then the UNC system was developed and launched. It was said that NC could never pave all its dirt roads and then NC became the good roads state. East Carolina (formally East Carolina Teachers College) could not have a med school, etc. etc.. The list of significant accomplishments from people of real leadership is long: the Hoover Dam, The Interstate Highway System, landing on the Moon, directing and exploding a working satellite into an orbiting astroid in outer space. I am frustrated by people nibbling around the edges calling themselves leaders. Thanks for letting me vent..... (Don't get me started on CMS where my wife is a teacher....)
How long does the trip from CLT to Raleigh take today? I think (big caveat) that it's about 3 hours 10 mins? If the state could get that down by 20-30 mins that would be a really big deal. But to be honest I don't know the next phase of improvements/construction on that line
Is it realistic to believe that Charlotte will coordinate with surrounding counties on a regional transit plan? Taxpayers in Mecklenburg county will not be willing to pay for a $13 billion plan.
Well, I think the bigger plan is not going to happen without some regional cooperation or buy-in. Charlotte needs outside funding to build the light rail connections to Union, Gaston, etc. that they envision. But Charlotte could do something smaller on its own - maybe really get going on greenways, or fixing the bus systems.
Theoretically, if there is to be a leadership change at CATS, who would initiate and approve and drive a replacement search?
Ely might have an opinion on this. I do think there are things these surrounding counties would like, such as enhanced express bus service. They have a lot of commuters to Mecklenburg. But no, they don't really seem to want to pay for it in any substantial way, and my guess is that a sales tax increase in these surrounding counties is a non-starter. Some people have floated the idea of a regional authority - give these (Republican-controlled) counties some actual power to make things happen, in exchange for some state money and approval from the legislature for a referendum here. But that would require Mecklenburg/Charlotte to give up some control.
At this point I don't think it's realistic to think that Union/Cabarrus/Gaston would be willing to levy a new sales tax for the Charlotte plan. I think the best hope would be to get them to pay for the incremental cost of bringing rail to their counties, and then asking them to pay for the extra operating cost of bringing the train there. That is what happens today with the express bus routes - they write a check to CATS. I may be mistaken, but in Atlanta, I think only Fulton and DeKalb counties are part of the MARTA tax. And the ATL area is much more urbanized than Charlotte. It may happen one day - but I think it's a while off